Intelligence Squared

This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. Jordan Stephens’ life during his teenage years and his twenties was a whirlwind. As one half of the hip hop duo Rizzle Kicks, his days were full of success, fame and adulation as Rizzle Kicks’ debut sold over 1 million singles and 600,000 albums in 2012. But for Jordan, success brought pain in its wake: a hidden pattern of self-harm, hedonism, destructive ideas of masculinity, and heartbreak. Diagnosed with ADHD, he was always chasing the elusive feeling of love and continually found himself distracted and derailed by drugs, drink, sex and chaos. After his world imploded, Jordan chose to step away from his previous life completely and allowed himself to finally explore the pain he’d repressed his entire life. His new memoir Avoidance, Drugs, Heartbreak & Dogs unsparingly digs into the fear, tenderness and trauma he carried. And it examines the confusing assumptions and contradictions about what a man should be that Jordan – and increasing numbers of young me

The development of life on Earth is often framed through the evolution of separate and distinct life forms but less common is the idea of the Earth itself as being one whole living organism. Writer Ferris Jabr's new book, Becoming Earth: How Our Planet Came to Life, takes an all-encompassing view of the intertwined ecosystems on our planet, their origins and where issues such as the climate crisis today might leave them in the future for a book that views the natural world in widescreen. Joining him to discuss it is the journalist, audio producer and book critic, Mythili Rao. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and

We welcome back Anna Bogutskaya to the podcast for this episode to discuss her book, Feeding the Monster: Why Horror Has a Hold on Us. As the title suggests, it’s a publication celebrating the goriest, scariest, and to many – most downright entertaining film genre out there. Bogutskaya is a writer, film programmer and podcaster, who regularly can be heard on The Final Girls horror podcast. Her writing has appeared in BBC Culture, Little White Lies, The Guardian, Tortoise, The Face, LA Review of Books and many more. Joining her in conversation for this episode is BBC Radio 1's film critic, Ali Plumb. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared pod

The bestselling war historian Rick Stroud joins the podcast to discuss some of the lesser told narratives of World War One, drawing from his recent book, I Am Not Afraid of Looking into the Rifles. The book explores some of the stories of the women who played their part during the conflict that shaped the opening of the 20th Century and for which the sacrifice on the battlefields of male soldiers is well known. Stroud's book seeks to address the lack of space given to the contribution of women in the established narratives of the World War One, many of whom established underground networks, transmitted coded information, carried out sabotage attacks and helped to repatriate Allied soldiers. Joining him to discuss it is fellow historian Helen Carr, the writer specialising in medieval history and public history. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit int

For this episode the writer, musician and author Molly Roden Winter discusses her bestselling book, More: A Memoir of Open Marriage. The book tells the story of Roden Winter's own journey navigating the polyamorous lifestyle while upholding many of the more traditional values associated with marriage simultaneously. Joining her to talk about it is Sarah Ditum, who listeners may remember from the podcast earlier this year discussing her own book: Toxic: Women, Fame and The Noughties. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intellig

Influence can be as gentle as a bit of friendly advice or as seismic as a strategy to win an election. As a behavioural scientist who has worked with the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Ministry of Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, Justin Hempson-Jones is more familiar with influence's uses – and its dangers – than most. In his recent book, Influence: Understand it, Use it, Resist it, he offers new perspectives on how individuals can use influence to achieve their goals in everyday life and also gives advice on how to detect when we're being influenced by more malign or unseen actors across society. Joining him to discuss the book is Carl Miller, the technology researcher, co-founder the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos, and author of The Death of the Gods: The New Global Power Grab. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just

The author and broadcaster Paul Morland is one of the UK’s leading thinkers on demographics – the study of population and its characteristics. Morland has been an associate research fellow at Birkbeck, University of London, and is a senior member at St Antony's College, Oxford. He last joined Intelligence Squared in 2022 and now returns to discuss his new book, No One Left. As that title suggests, Morland says the world is facing something of a crisis, with various nations facing population decline which could lead to consequences that range from labour shortages to ballooning debt. Joining him to discuss the issue is Eir Nolsøe, senior economics reporter at the Telegraph. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Square

Paulina Rowinska is a writer, mathematician and science communicator, whose new book, Mapmatics: How We Navigate the World Through Numbers, tells the stories found within crunching tricky equations. Rowinska has a PhD in Mathematics of Planet Earth from Imperial College London and across the pages of Mapmatics she explores fields ranging from map-making to forecasting elections, how we get our packages delivered on time and even how mathematics can be used to prevent crime. Joining her to discuss it is Roma Agrawal, MBE, who is a structural engineer, author and broadcaster. Agrawal has written three books, the most recent of which is Nuts & Bolts, which was shortlisted for the 2023 Royal Society Science Book Prize. Her new children’s book, Seven Small Inventions that Changed the World, is out in late August. Find out more at www.Romatheengineer.com. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews

The writer Simon Kuper returns to the podcast to discuss the follow-up to his book Chums, which highlighted the narrow and highly privileged pathway that often funnels attendees of some the UK's top education establishments into the highest seats of power in government. His new book is Good Chaps, an exploration of the idea that most politicians who have followed a privileged route into power will be naturally predisposed to following the rules and doing the right thing. Kuper is known for his writing and columns in the Financial Times, where he comments on topics ranging from politics to culture and sports. Joining him in conversation for this podcast is Josh Glancy, editor of the News Review at The Sunday Times. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Fu

Debut novelist Amy Twigg's book, Spoilt Creatures, tells a story set on a women's commune where things take a dark turn. The novel has earned Twigg praise as one of the Observer newspaper's top 10 best new novelists of 2024. Joining her to discuss the story is Anna Bogutskaya, a writer, film programmer and podcaster, who is the creator of Eerie – a horror anthology podcast. Bogutskaya is also author of the soon to be released book, Feeding the Monster: Why Horror Has a Hold on Us. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligen

A poet, performer, novelist and screenwriter, Olivia Gatwood has received international recognition for her writing, which has focused on topics including coming of age, feminism, gendered violence and true crime. Her debut novel is Whoever You Are, Honey, a dark and brilliant story set amid a secluded California beachside community living in the shadow of the neighbouring tech giants of Silicon Valley. The book has been described as, “a fever dream for the AI age,” and has already been snapped up by Margot Robbie’s production company for a screen adaptation. Joining Gatwood in conversation to discuss it for this episode is Poppy Damon, the journalist and podcast producer based in New York City. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus In

Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley since 2015, Jess Phillips has never shied away from controversy nor has she been afraid to veer away from Labour Party lines to uphold her political principles. For this episode, we’re joined by Phillips to discuss some of the most pressing issues in British politics during a fortnight that has seen shocking scenes of violence and racism unfold across UK streets. Following Labour’s recent election win, Phillips is Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Minister for Safeguarding) at the Home Office. She’s also the author of a new book, Let’s Be Honest, which combines memoir and manifesto to discuss what’s going wrong with politics and offers ideas on how to fix it. She came to the Intelligence Squared stage recently, appearing live at London’s Kiln Theatre for a talk recorded on Thursday 8 August for which she was joined in conversation by the journalist, author and broadcaster Helen Lewis. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd l

Marcel Dirsus is a political scientist and the author of How Tyrants Fall: And How Nations Survive. As Non-Resident Fellow at the Institute for Security Policy at Kiel University, Dirsus mainly works on regime instability, political violence and German foreign policy. His new book takes us into the downfall of dictators ranging from Libya's Muammar Gaddafi to Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe, as well as unpacking why some dictatorial leaders and regimes remain solid. Joining him in conversation for this episode is Hannah Lucinda Smith, Turkey correspondent for The Times and Monocle magazine and author of Erdogan Rising. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligenc

The award-winning science journalist Olive Heffernan’s work has been featured in National Geographic, New Scientist, The Guardian, BBC Wildlife and more. Her new book is The High Seas: Ambition, Power and Greed on the Unclaimed Ocean. Two thirds of the ocean lie beyond national borders and yet they are home to some of the richest natural resources and natural biodiversity on the planet. It makes these areas highly coveted territories and Heffernan’s book studies both the exploitation of the maritime environment across the high seas and the measures that have been taken to try and preserve them. Joining her in conversation for this episode is Adam McCauley, who is a writer and researcher studying the social, cultural, and political impacts of emerging technologies. He also writes a regular newsletter, The View From Here. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, jus

A truly multifaceted talent, Joelle Taylor is a poet, playwight, actor and most recently a novelist, who has written four collections of poetry along with also being a Poetry Fellow of the University of East Anglia and a Fellow at the Royal Society of Literature. Taylor's new novel is The Night Alphabet, a narrative of interconnecting stories told via tracing the interwoven tapestries found on the skin of a heavily tattooed figure living in a future London of 2233. Joining Taylor to discuss the book is the writer and author of the recent hit novel Evenings & Weekends, Oisín McKenna. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-perso

The award-winning classicist and cultural critic Daisy Dunn is the author of seven books including her latest, The Missing Thread: A New History of the Ancient World through the Women Who Shaped It. The book re-examines not only the female individuals who were at the heart of many well-known stories of the ancient world, but also looks at the whole of wider history through the perspective of women too. Joining Dunn to discuss it is Peter Stothard, the author specialising in ancient history and who is former editor of the Times newspaper. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events

Sheila Heti is a writer from Toronto who has published 11 books since the early 2000s. Those include Motherhood, Pure Colour, and How Should A Person Be? That latter title was a breakout work mixing memoir with fiction and self-help in a quest to examine her own authenticity. Her latest book is Alphabetical Diaries – a slim, elegant volume that compresses 10 years of Heti’s own diary entries into 60,000 words across 25 chapters. Every entry, as the title suggests, is organised alphabetically. Joining her to discuss the book for this episode is Susie Mesure, who is a writer and reviewer whose work is often seen in The Sunday Times, The ipaper, Prospect, The Financial Times and more. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squ

This episode is brought to you by CHANEL. CHANEL Connects – the acclaimed arts and culture podcast – is back for its fourth season, with nine episodes featuring the artists, curators and thinkers shaping culture today. If you enjoy the episode, you can hear much more from the new season, just search CHANEL Connects now on your preferred streaming platforms or visit chanel.com.   The artist William Kentridge and curator Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev are old friends who, together, have created some of the most resonant work of their time. These two giants of the art world discuss the Venice installation of William’s film “Self-Portrait as a Coffee Pot,” Carolyn‘s previous work as director of the Castello di Rivoli museum in Italy, and the origins of their long and rich creative relationship. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Orlando Whitfield started his career as a dealer in the feverish global art market but left it disillusioned and burnt-out a decade later. Today he works as a writer and his recent book is All That Glitters, a memoir that explores his experience as an associate of Inigo Philbrick, an ambitious art market player who in 2022 was sentenced to seven years in prison for defrauding investors in what has been described as allegedly the biggest art fraud in American history. Whitfield, by contrast, ended up in rehab and embarked on a period of painful self-reflection. All that Glitters reads like a script for a thrilling heist movie, which, indeed, it is likely to become since HBO has recently acquired the rights. Joining Whitfield in conversation for this episode is Kathryn Hughes, a literary critic at the Guardian and Professor at the University of East Anglia. Her latest book, Catland, concerns the Edwardian artist Louis Wain whose popular illustrations changed the way that the modern world thinks about cats. If

James Comey is the former FBI Director turned crime novelist who has spent a career fighting organised crime and hostile threats to American democracy. In 2016 as head of the FBI, he reopened a previously closed investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails from her time as Secretary of State, which is still a divisive moment that many say helped define the election of that year. In July 2024 Comey came to the Intelligence Squared stage for our first ever event in Brighton, where he discussed the themes of his latest crime thriller Westport, a murder mystery set in the world of high finance, plus the future of US politics and why he thinks Kamala Harris is having a positive influence on the election of 2024. Joining Comey in conversation for this event was Josh Glancy, Editor of News Review at The Sunday Times. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit int